Thursday, May 7, 2009

Chapter 12 - Is That a Symbol?

Use the process described on page 106 and investigate the symbolism of the fence in "Araby." (Mangan's sister stands behind it.)

17 comments:

Grey_spear said...

In "Araby" by James Joyce, Mangan's sister is always distant from our protagonist. In one particular instance, she is talking to our unnamed protagonist from behind a fence. Fences serve one purpose, and that is to separate one area from another, making an impassable barrier. They are often symbols of captivity, powerlessness, or oppression. They can represent another obstacle in a character's life. Though fences can symbolize a multitude of things, i believe the one in this story is a physical representation of the distance between Mangan's sister and our unnamed protagonist. Throughout the story he is always watching her from a distance. She is probably his crush, making him too intoxicated to realize that she is unattainable. The physical distance is a good representation of the emotional distance in the earlier part of the story. The fence comes into play to represent the emotional distance when the physical distance in absent. Even when they are but a few feet apart casually talking, the fence represents the emotional distance that is still present. it shows that Mangan's sister is still distant and unattainable, even when they are talking.

Giesting said...

The fence was present when the boy and Mangan's sister were talking for the first time. They were a mere feet apart from eachother but the fence was inbetween. I saw the fence as a symbol for a barrier of her love. For the moment she was standing on the otherside not trying to get him, indicating she does not want him. They keep talking and the boy is going to get her a gift and try to brake the barrier. See, fences are a good barrier and all, but they can be climbed and conquered. The fence ment that she did not want him at the moment, but it was a fence not a brick wall. A fence can easily be jumped, but if James Joyce used a wall, then it would have a totally different meaning.

Grey_spear said...

It would probably be a little harder to talk through a brick wall as well.

Giesting said...

dude don't be like that. You get the idea

sschwegman said...

I agree with both Scott and Chris. The fence that Mangan's sister stands behind is like a feelings barrier. The boy liked Mangan's sister because he watched her from a distance but although they were so close to each other, they weren't together because the fence served as a barrier. They couldn't get through it and apparently, couldn't their feelings. It was both physically there and mentally. Although since it was only a fence, hope was still there. There was a chance of talking to Mangan’s sister and still being able to see her, so it gave the boy something to look forward to.

Haddison said...

I agree with everyone on how the fence in “Araby” represents a barrier between the young boy and Mangan’s sister. There is something that is stopping the boy from completely being in love with the girl, which is what she holds on the inside. And as we read on into the short story we learn that the girl isn’t really nice at all because the only time she even attempts to talk to the boy is when she wants something. She is unable to attend the Araby and so knowing the infatuation the boy has for her (how could you not know that someone has been secretly spying on you through the window?) convinces him to bring her something back. Luckily while at the Araby the young boy realizes that the girl is just using him and should be glad that he found out what the fence indicated before ‘jumping over it’ and getting his heart broken.

lclifton said...

I agree with everyone’s explanation about what the fence symbolizes. I believe the fence was a warning to the boy and an obstacle that was blocking his way to the girl. The girl was much older and more mature compared to the boy, so the boy had to have already known that a love relationship could never work with her. The fence was trying to warn him to not get involved with her because he might get hurt emotionally. Earlier we talked about the biblical allusions in "Araby." I thought the fence standing between them was God’s warning to the unnamed protagonist to not cross it or else he would lose his innocence. Another idea is that on the girl’s side of the fence there was the knowledge and experience the naive protagonist did not know of. The boy’s side of the fence symbolized the side of purity that he could never return to if he crossed over to the other side of the fence. The fence was separating the two different sides that symbolized the Garden of Eden separated by the east of Eden. The fence was a warning sign that the boy did not pay attention to.

holly_2313 said...

In James Joyce’s short story “Araby”, the main character has a crush on his friend, Mangan’s, sister. In the specific scene mentioned, where our protagonist is talking to his crush, there is a fence that stands between the two of them. Fences are used to separate areas, keep something out or something in, and can symbolize many types of separation. In Joyce’s particular short story though, the fence represents a kind of protection and separation for the young girl. A separation from our young protagonist, which is pronounced also by him peering through his blinds and window, is rather clear. The girl is unattainable to our protagonist, but it is of his own doing. The fence also represents a protection for the young girl from our protagonist and his desires for her. After he goes to the market he learns that he’s not much better than the men that are flirting so heavily with the lady working there with all the wrong intentions. The fence symbolizes the barrier he himself keeps between himself and his crush, as does the blinds and the window he peers through to watch her.

h_mckinney said...

As well as being a Biblical story “Araby” is quite symbolic, even for its small volume. One of the most vivid sections of the story, the part in which the boy and his friend’s sister talk for the first time, is perhaps one of the best examples of symbolism in the whole work. In this part, the two are separated from what I can deduce as being a dilapidated fence on the dead priest’s property and it is dark with little light that manages to highlight some of the girl’s features such as the hem of her white dress and the curve of her neck. Like I said before, this scene is full of imagery and seems as if it is a divine message from the heavens to the boy. However, the fact that the girl is behind the fence changes a few things and makes the fence heavily symbolic, and as with all symbols, it must be viewed from multiple perspectives to truly find out what it represents. To the boy, the fact that the girl is standing behind the fence makes her seem unreachable and unattainable. Thus one thing the fence symbolizes is a barrier and maybe even a barrier between what is actual and what is desired, that even goes as far to symbolize that all desires are somewhat distant from the reality they’re put into and in some cases not possible at all. Still, we can’t forget to look at this from the girl’s perspective. Why would she start a conversation from behind a fence? Is she shy or mysterious? Does she have anything to hide from the boy or any reason to? Maybe the fence in this case represents how one can’t truly see someone until they get to know them as more than an image and also how people can us this fact against others in the most cruel or innocent of ways. Certainly a combination of these two ideas would answer the question as to what the fence could symbolize.

Garret said...

The first time Mangan’s sister talked to the protagonist, there was a fence between them. This fence is symbolic of a barrier between the two. The protagonist is obviously infatuated with Mangan’s sister and will do anything for her. He sits in his house and watches for her to come out, so he can follow her. He never talks to her despite his feelings for her. There is some kind of barrier between the two that causes this. I think that the barrier is the fact that Mangan’s sister doesn’t have feelings for the protagonist. This is shown through the symbolism of the fence when they talk for the first time. There is always a way around a fence, whether it be through a gate or jumping over it. If Mangan’s sister truly had feelings for the protagonist and wasn’t just using him to get something, she would have walked around the fence. That would have shown that there was no barrier between the two. Since she chose to stand behind the fence, there is a barrier between the two that she doesn’t want to cross. The fence symbolizes a barrier between the two and it also symbolizes the fact that the protagonist can’t have Mangan’s sister. A fence is meant to keep someone or something out. If they aren’t the one that is meant to be kept out, they will walk through the gate to get to the other side. Since they stay on opposite sides of the fence, they are not meant to be with each other.

J_Espin said...

In "Araby" the protagonist has a crush on Mangan's sister, even though they have hardly even spoken. He waits for her to come outside so he can watch and follow her without saying more than hello. The first time they speak is through a fence. I believe the fence symbolizes the difference in feelings the two have for each other. The protagonist has very strong feelings for her while on the other hand she feels nothing special towards him. The fence symbolizes how she has no feelings for him. Fences however can have gates, be climbed or be taken down which shows that the protagonist may be able to conquer this emotional distance. On the other hand if Mangan's sister felt anything special she could have done any of these things to more directly speak to the protagonist.

James A. Call said...

Coming back to Araby, there are, as with all stories, some examples of symbolism. For example, let’s take the fence that apparently exists between the main character and Mangan’s sister at some point in time. Like all fences, it serves to separate two things, namely the land on one side of it and the land on the other. Now, looking at it in a symbolic light, it could be a few different things. Perhaps the narrator is shy, and has trouble talking to girls. Maybe young boys and girls don’t associate much in his culture. It’s possible that the fence represents some sort of superiority the girl is claiming, as shown by her resting her hand on it. It could be a metaphorical wall that the narrator is trying to break down. Maybe it’s two, three, or all of these. Maybe I’m completely wrong. What I take it to mean though, is that this boy is very unsure of how to approach this girl that he’s fascinated with, not necessarily because he’s shy, but because he hasn’t had the opportunity to talk to girls near his age much, especially ones that strike him as attractive.

__jgarcia said...

The fence between the boy and the girl is obviously symbolizing a barrier between the two. Although everyone can have different interpretations when it comes to symbols, as you can see by reading everyone else’s posts, most people interpret symbols the same way. Along with serving as a barrier, I think that the fence also leads the boy further into temptation. Because he can see through the fence, he sees what he wants. As Chris said, if it were a wall, the boy wouldn’t have been nearly as tempted to talk to her. Although Scott’s reply to Chris was more of a joke, he has a point. If a brick wall was between the two, conversation would have been very difficult. Because I’m sure the two wouldn’t be shouting over the wall, there would have been no conversation at all.

tnunlist said...

In "Araby" our unnamed protagonist is after Mangan's sister, who is also unnamed. He always watches her from afar and he thinks he loves without so much as saying a word to her. The first time he has and actual conversation with her there is a fence between them, which represents a barrier between them. This barrier could be a few things. Such as his inability to communicate with her or the fact that she has no interest in him at the moment. I do agree with some people that have already posted on how a fence can be climbed or overcome. A fence may be a barrier, but it is not an impassable barrier. You never know what may happen.

cpaul said...

I agree with everyone above that the fence was nothing more then a barrier for their feelings. Although they were able to somewhat talk they never really had a chance to interact with one another because of the fence. It reminds me of the phrase, “you make a better door then a window”. The fence is like a window because they see each other very clear. Also because of the fact that the fence is like a window you know it can always be climbed through. The fence symbolized her and his feelings because although they may have wanted to, they couldn’t be together at the moment. Since it’s just like a window there was hope that they might, but if it had been a closed door things would be different.

lkarbowski said...

Everyone has very thoughtful responses on this chapter. The fence is a symbol of many things. First, as stated by many, it is a barrier against the feelings of the boy and girl. The girl simply uses the boy for her own selfish reasons, such as using him to attend the bazaar for her. The fence is a barrier between loving feels, but perhaps it also blocked the hatred that comes from when the boy realizes he is just being used. Second, the fence is also a physical barrier. My thought is that if he were able to physically be with the girl he might not have gone to the bazaar at all. The two can never be together which would hinder the boy’s infatuations with the girls. The author could have placed this fence here to protect the boy in many ways. The temptation of the girl was very alluring, but there was an obstacle in the way. In the end the boy decided not to jump the fence, but rather to stay on the safe side.

CKoury said...

The fence is the only thing that stops the protagonist from actually getting close to the person he wants to know more than anyone else. When he talks to Mangan's sister, she makes him feel bad so that he will go to the bazaar for her. When he gets there, he realizes that he is going there because he wants her to like him, but she just wants to use him. He turns around and stops before he goes too far into a false relationship.